Little Details

A Fact-Checking Community for Writers

Previous Entry Share Next Entry
Slow-acting poison/drug related to research
landscape || plant || cornflower, landscape || purple flowers
zeldaophelia wrote in little_details
Period: Modern Day
Place: US
Places looked: Wikipedia, PubMed, DrugDigest

What I'm looking for:
I need a poison or drug that can be used to slowly kill someone over time - a couple of weeks to a month tops. Something that in low doses isn't going to do much/any damage, but would likely show up in blood tests (murderer is drugging self and others to throw off police). Also something that is either linked to some sort of chemical/biological/medical research and/or normally found in a lab.

Props if it is used in more than one field of research.

Several groups of researchers are competing for the same grant. One researcher is also in the process of murdering his colleagues involved in his project. He wants to do it in a manner that suggests that someone they're competing with is behind it. As a result, he also doses himself and some people from some of the other projects - but without any intention of killing them/himself. No one from the group being framed will be dosed. I'd like to use something that would initially lead the cops to the group being framed, but once they're cleared could eventually be linked back to the actual murderer.

My original plan had been to use a tyrosine kinase inhibitor because the articles I've found at PubMed suggest that it can cause congestive heart failure in large doses (and used in both cancer and diabetes research, but appears to be more common in cancer research). However, it can apparently take a really long time (mean 169 days) and I'm not certain if it'd be fatal (or if the symptons would have the victims going to the doctor and figure out what's going on). And it probably requires some preexisting conditions.

That said, DrugDigest lists grapefruit juice (and things including grapefruit juice) as something you Do Not Touch while taking, so I'm wondering if that could cause another reaction of some sort/kill the people? (Say, the person responsible has been slipping them the Sunitinib and stocks the fridge with Mountain Dew.) Or does grapefruit juice just not make it work? Another option is a brand new, not yet on the market inhibitor that causes heart failure more quickly that the other group happens to be in the process of developing (and the killer got his hands on somehow :/ ), which gives me more wiggle room but adds a few more problems.

Thanks everyone!

I think most/all heavy metal poisonings can work like this, including arsenic.

Also, I believe (but I'm not sure), that grapefruit simply negates the effects of many medicines; I don't believe it actually causes any damage on its own. Sorry.

Arsenic was the first thing that I thought of for this as well, and mercury.

Arsenic given in low doses over time will make people ill and eventually kill them, but the poisoner will have to be careful about how much he gives people. Look up the side effects of arsenic to see how it will make them ill.

I imagine mercury to have the same effect (*hasn't looked it up*).

Something else that comes to mind for making people ill over a long period of time is Thalidomide poisoning, so you could check up on that.

Eek! I meant Thallium, not Thalidomide. >_<" Sorry about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thallium

LOL I was just going to inquire about that! Because I've heard of slow Thallium poisoning, but all I know about Thalidomide is that it was an anti-emetic that caused birth defects; I'd never heard of anyone being poisoned with it. :-)

I'll look into both! Thank you!

Thanks!

I had a feeling that was the case with grapefruit juice. Darn.



Dimethyl mercury will kill slowly over a period of weeks to months, and has the interesting property of going right through latex gloves. However, a single drop on the skin enough. Probably much too potent for your purposes. If a person knows they've been exposed, the only treatment is immediate high amputation.

I repeat my praise for the writer's reference book _Deadly Doses_. I believe it can be found on Amazon.

And indigo.ca in Canada. For under $20 plus S&H

I've added this to my ILL requests. I'm also waiting to get Molecules of Murder, I've heard it might be helpful as well. Thanks!

how much time to take this heavy metal for person dead

Selenium is another heavy metal, and is sometimes comes across as smelling garlicky or oniony. It's a micronutrient that is necessary for living things, but can be toxic, and will build up in the liver over time. Often it is used in laboratory testing and in veterinary medicine.

more than 500 micrograms for humans will cause selenosis, which can be hard to trace, and causes GI problems and neurological damage. Increased dosages over time (a month or two, or less) can cause edema and death.

It's not normally found in poison screenings because it is a nutrient, but if they ran a test for heavy metals they'd find it.



For that matter, cobalt is an important trace element. Among other things, it is at the core of every B-12 molecule. The vitamin’s chemical name, cobalamin, in fact comes from the cobalt in it.

Ooooh, this looks interesting. I'll have to look into this. Thanks!

This looks great! According to PubMed Selenium is being used in both cancer and dairy cattle research. Definitely a possibility! Thank!

It's also used in chemistry, diabetes research, cancer research, and HIV/AIDS research, photography and electronics/engineering, so it's sort of crazy available.

Plus they symptoms aren't really that noticeable (who says something if their coworkers breath smells?)

Possibly iron overdose? I'm not sure if one could strike a balance between enough to have an effect, and little enough not to cause overly drastic problems, but maybe. Plus investigators might not be looking for it since in smaller doses it's a normal supplement. You'd also have to figure out how to deliver it in a more concentrated form (salts?) than a whole bunch of tablets.

"The therapeutic dose for iron deficiency anemia is 3-6 mg/kg/day. Toxic effects begin to occur at doses above 10-20 mg/kg of elemental iron. Ingestions of more than 50 mg/kg of elemental iron are associated with severe toxicity." -emedicine

I was considering this. I think I've have to investigate it further. Thanks!

Arsenic - common lab reagent. Victim gets vaguely ill, which becomes more serious over time. Requires repeated doses and is easily detected.

Other metalloids: Thallium causes characteristic hair lost, selenium and tellurium have characteristic odors.

Atrazine - herbicide. Absorbed through skin, causes destruction of lungs and death by apparent pneumonia over a period of weeks.

Dimethylmercury - bad, bad stuff. Rare chemical, not commonly kept in labs. Causes progressive destruction of the nervous system.

Dangerous Bill



Dimethyl mercury is used as a standard reference in calibrating MRI machines. I know a guy who works for Kodak in England as an imaging technician, and he says he's very careful whenever they have that stuff out.

OOh! This looks good! Thanks!

Then you probably know about this case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Wetterhahn

Apparently DMM is used only because someone thought of it first, and it became a defacto standard, and not because it's the very best substance for the purpose.

DB



Yeah. That case is how I learned about the stuff. *Shudder*


These look great. I used to work in a lab with atrazine, I can't believe I didn't think of it. Thank you!

Back in my old lab days, a friend of a friend was poisoned with p32 isotope. Someone was contaminating her lunches, which was accidentally discovered by someone else walking by with a Geiger counter while she was eating. She was okay, at least in the short term, but it was freaking scary that someone would do such a thing.

Google reveals several other, similar cases, but the above was well before the 1995 incident.

Wow, thanks! This could be useful!

It would take a lot of P32 to kill someone. P32 is (or was) used in large quantities to treat polycythemia, where the marrow makes too many red blood cells.

However, there is good ol' polonium-210, but the time frame of exposure and death is too long for the stated purpose.

DB



Hmmm, some fluorine compounds are extremely toxic. Problem is, typically the difference in dose between "not noticed" and "lethal" is so small that there's little chance of a person getting sick and surviving.

And if you want something a little more immediate try chlorine trifluoride. So active it will spontaneously combust with asbestos. :-)

:)) I think those are a little outside what I'm needing. But I'll keep them in mind for my next poisoning fic. ;)

Oh, I was thinking today and recalled another real life case where a researcher tried to murder her former lover with acrylamide. Here's another article about the case. He didn't die right away, but it is a serious nerve poison.

The Wicked will be bound today

(Anonymous)

2011-11-27 12:08 pm (UTC)

yuh,stop the wickedness.May Jesus Christ stop you abruptly by fire

Yes, he will be burned. Sure, he will be burned. The Truth, he will be burned.

I Looking for help, tryinng any avenue I can. I suspect my aunt was killed by killed by an evil attorney who claimed he had power of attorney (financial and medical) He has refused to show documentation. He refused family memebers contact with her and several weeks later she was dead. Upon objection from family members, he had the body cremated, and the attorney claimed all her possessions. He had employed someone who had vet tech training to make sure she wasn't able to talk to anyone. Perhaps some veternarian drugs were used to kill her over several weeks. She had lost a lot of weight over that time apperantly. Can anyone supply me a fearless investigative reporrter, private investigator, or true crime writer that can't be intimidated by a powerful attorney? I want to expose this slimeball and warn others about him. Some family members have been intimidated into silence by this attorney. But I am so mad about it. I am a nobody that the attorney will "squash like a bug" if he knew I was publically protesting his actions. She was a nice older lady that I think he may have tortured. Would appreciate any help.

Was his name craig coscarelli age 65. He poisoned me. I lost 45 pounds in 2 months half my hair, kidneys failing. Suspect dimethyl mercury. Houston texas 15402 western skies 77086 thats where he is

Paralegal. Probably took out insurance on me. Gambling problem. Sociopath. Admitted he killed his mom. Poisoned ex wife diabetic also. Tried to claim we were married. . Because i signed afadavit if rzidd.cy.

Of residency. Suspect he is serial killer

My name is marcy

He is felon convicted of money laundering to the sum of $915,000.00 in telemarketing sweepstakes skam and use of fictitious names. Escaped from him 6 weeks ago. Probably too latemarcymarcy

Heavy metal test came back. High toxic value for MERCURY 400 ug/kg mine 725. High for LEAD 1000, mine 1024. High for CHROMIUM 500, mine 1148. Fighting for my life every day and still he stalks me. MARCY

God has created human and leaves human on earth to live. He is responsible for his actions. He is accountable to God for all the things he has done one day . if that man made something wrong with you, you must leave him or leave things to God. If you kill him, he will die, it's true. But you remember, you couldn't not be able to sleep after his death.

And remember one thing, the ultimate truth. "You have to confess to GOD for your action in the JUDGEMENT DAY"

MAY ALLAH BE WITH YOU.


MD. RAGIB MAHMUD,
BANGLADESH

that guy you are talking about is in deep as in deep into the system it would take only a smidge of the poison he used to get him put away but since he is a lawyer he knows his way around rules and can come up with a back-up plan my advice is to find the smidge of poison and then hide and lay low after handing over the evidence that guy or his accomplises if he has any may try to harm you but you said you were poisoned so you might want to secretly find a cure don't publicly display this keep it under wraps so he doesn't find out before you get him put away or even killed.

if you go to police reports.org you can get all the dirt on this guy